lonely campus podcast

Episode 15: lonely campus podcast with Michael Mazzaroppi

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Lonely campus, sense of belonging, diversity and inclusion, ASL class, deaf community, Gallaudet University, Center for Disability Resources, accommodations, social media, coping with loneliness, student support, marginalized groups, travel experiences, community spaces, personal identity.

Mary Grace Almandrez 00:00
Mary. Hi. I'm Mary Grace Almandrez, the vice president for diversity and inclusion. Welcome to the lonely campus podcast as presented by the Office of Diversity and Inclusion. This show is hosted by our administrative fellow, Amy Messersmith, and features students just like you who share stories about the challenges and triumphs that come with trying to find your place on Syracuse University's campus.

Amy Messersmith 00:42
Hi, everybody. This is Amy Messersmith. I'm an associate director for TRiO Student Support Services here at Syracuse University, and I am also an Office of Diversity and Inclusion administrative fellow. My project is a pop up podcasting studio where I go around campus and collect stories based on a sense of belonging. And so the podcast is called lonely campus, and the thought was, if we collect stories from students, staff and faculty about journeys related to loneliness, lack of sense of belonging, and that maybe it could be a valuable resource for incoming students who are here on campus for the first time and maybe wondering, you know where to go to find their community on campus. And so this has been a really positive experience, and my fellowship is coming to an end at the end of July 2025 and so this is the final official episode of The Lonely campus podcast, and I'm super excited to be sitting here with university staff. Michael Mazarapi from the Center for Disability Resources, I think what we'll start out first is, you know, Michael, do you mind talking just a little bit about your role at the university,

Michael Mazzaroppi 02:01
Sure. Hello everyone. So I actually wear two hats at the university. So I am part time faculty, because I do teach two sections of American Sign Language, 101, and then I'm full time staff. So as you said, I work at the Center for Disability Resources as an access coordinator, and really what that means is I will meet incoming students, usually during the summer, as a welcome meeting, usually over zoom, sometimes in person, and just talk to them and find out, like, what accommodations they might have used in high school if they haven't used accommodation in high school. Try to find out why they think they may need them. And then we come up with an accommodation plan that gets sent to faculty and they implement them in the classroom. And so some of the examples of accommodation might be like for testing would be like extended time, so time and a half we work with also like for housing accommodations and dining hall accommodations, but mostly academic accommodation.

Amy Messersmith 03:00
Thank you for sharing that you're part time faculty too.

Michael Mazzaroppi 03:04
Of course.

Amy Messersmith 03:06
Do you mind talking a little bit about the class, the ASL class?

Michael Mazzaroppi 03:12
So not to brag or toot my own horn, but I get a lot of compliments from people saying that they really liked my class, and so the class itself is completely non voice, like non verbal. From day one, I never speak. Many of my students go on thinking, you know, like I don't speak, but actually, obviously I can. And they also might think like deaf in the sense of profoundly deaf, but deafness is actually it can be like mild hearing loss, all the way to profoundly deaf, so like with hearing aids. So in terms of understanding, with hearing aids, I would be hard of hearing, and then without my hearing aids, I am deaf, like I can't hear a conversation, I can't hear the TV. And even with hearing aids, I still use closed captioning. Anyway, back to the class. So I don't use my voice from day one, and I don't end the class using my voice. So never and it's not a secret. I mean, there are students, like if I have to speak, and I even have some students who are my students at CDR and also want to take ASL so they know I can speak. So it's an unvoicing class. It meets mostly two to three times a week, usually once a week. I have them do like, group work, so they're it's independent, and then it's just basic ASL 101, you know, understand that after ASL 101, you're might be able to have a very basic conversation, like, what's your name and where are you from, but most programs have up to level ASL six, but as you, I think they only have ASL level three, up to level three. Hopefully they're trying to build the program, and they almost did, but then the coordinator. She took a different job, and so then we're just back to where we were. Unfortunately,

Amy Messersmith 05:05
My experience with helping students register is that that class fills up pretty quickly.

Michael Mazzaroppi 05:11
Yeah,it does. It does. And I mean, I will say in one sense, it has grown, because when I started, there were only two ASL professors and maybe four sections. Now there are five ASL professors. We're all part time, and we all have one except for one. We all have two sections. And so they are trying to continue it with like, ASL 101 then you can take 102 and hopefully you can take 201 and hopefully, if we get enough, it can go to 202 which would be like the level four? Yeah.
Amy Messersmith 05:41
I'm just curious, and then, you know, we'll get to your story. But I'm curious about the first day of class when there's expectations about, you know, how a classroom is quote, unquote, supposed to run, or what they're used to, versus, like, how it slowly lands to the student when they realize it's non speaking. Like, what is that transition like?

Michael Mazzaroppi 06:03
I think a lot of them, if not all of them, are nervous, because all of a sudden they realize, Oh, this guy's not going to speak. So it's, you know, I, I'm probably the only, not only ASL professor, all the ASL professor, their PowerPoints are probably, like 50 slides, because we use the slides to direct the class right? We have to, especially in the very beginning. So pretty much everything I'm saying and I'm using air quotes is on the slide. Okay, it's rare that I'm gonna sign something that's not on the slide, right? And if it's not on the slide, usually I will pull up the Microsoft Word blank doc and type it. And then a lot of students, if they have questions, they will type, they'll come up and they'll type, or they'll email me, usually the third day of class, I usually will have an ASL interpreter just for that one time so that we can go over classroom expectations, assignments, grading policy, absence policy. So then later, there's no confusion to like, I didn't know that. It's like, well, I had an interpreter, plus it's in the syllabus. And then, oh, and then one of the questions I do ask, like, in their first study group, is, what's it like to have a deaf instructor? Like, what do you think you're gonna have to do differently? And it's, I've never had a negative. It's always been like, Oh, I think it'll be cool. I'll just have to get used to looking at my professor. Yeah, it's good. And because it's a silent class, I always have everyone's full attention, because if you look away for a second, you're gonna miss what might be important information

Amy Messersmith 07:35
That is really interesting, that I think, by upfront communicating to the class that you can't, you can't fall back on tools that you're used to falling back on, and it kind of shifts the expectations and presents a different bar to me. You know now you have to build a different skill set in the classroom like I love that it's focused attention, and that's it that makes learning so much more meaningful.

Michael Mazzaroppi 08:02
Well, it's interesting, maybe like two years ago now, I had, she was the chair for the foreign language department, and she came and she did an observation. She just wanted to see how it was run. And she said she'd never seen a class where I had the full attention of everyone. And, you know, one, obviously, one of my policies is no cell phone use. A lot of professors have that, but sometimes it's hard to control, especially if we have a class of 100 students, but because I only have up to 20, it's easier to control. And I also explained in the beginning, like I can tell if you're looking at your phone, even if you think it's on your lap, because your eyes are not on me. And 95% of the students never use their cell phone. I always have that one, maybe two, that try to sneak it, and usually what I try to do is I'll try to call on them once I've seen them look at their phone and be like, Okay. And they're like, I missed it. And I'm like, well, then you might want to pay attention, and they get that. So

Amy Messersmith 08:56
That is such an interesting classroom learning experience. And there's something really powerful about a whole room focused together.

Michael Mazzaroppi 09:06
Yeah, and the other unique aspect I have of ASL is it's typically a class where students have an interest in people who want to take ASL. They have a certain personality. Usually, once in a while, we'll get a student who thought that it would be easy. But usually before classes even start, I will send an email explaining, if you think this is going to be an easy class, you might want to reconsider. I let them know up front.

Amy Messersmith 09:31
Nice. Well, thank you for giving us a peek into ASL 101, at the University. I'm going to be thinking about that for a little bit because I think that that's really interesting,

Michael Mazzaroppi 09:42
yeah. And hopefully, if you're listening to this, hopefully I'll see you in one of my classes.

Amy Messersmith 09:47
Thats awesome

Michael Mazzaroppi 09:48
yeah,

Amy Messersmith 09:48
All right, the next question has to do about you and your identity. And you know, of course, we only want to go where you are comfortable going. But whatever. Comfortable sharing about your identity. You know, we'd love to hear it.

Michael Mazzaroppi 10:03
So, yeah, I'm a cis white male deaf, like I already just touched on that. I do identify as deaf, although it may surprise some people, like well, you speak well, and I can hear some. But again, as I mentioned earlier, deaf is all encompassing. Also, I do identify as gay. I've always identified as gay, white male, so I feel like I'm all over the place. I'm not able to body because of being deaf. But also, I do have a condition called the vascular necrosis, which is actually the, It's when your joint deteriorates. But I've been pretty good about doing yoga, working out, watching when I eat, so I've been able to kind of keep it manageable. Like, yeah. So, yeah. So that's me in a nutshell.

Amy Messersmith 10:52
Fantastic. We're both at Syracuse University, and at one point we were in the same building. We were HEOP and SSS were in 804 University Avenue, and at one point it was the Office of Disability Services. At that point, I was on the third floor. But our paths don't necessarily cross very often. Do you mind talking a little bit about your journey and how you came to SU.

Michael Mazzaroppi 11:18
So to be honest, I don't know if I would be in this position if I wasn't, you know, born deaf or even gay for that matter. But so I was born and raised in Syracuse, New York. I went to Solvay High School. After I graduated from Solvay, I went to Gallaudet University, Washington, DC. And for those who don't know, Gallaudet University is the only liberal arts university in the world for deaf and hard of hearing students, everybody must use ASL as a means of communication. They recently have started accepting hearing students, but usually those hearing students are children of Deaf parents, or they might have siblings that are deaf or they want to know ASL, like they just can't go there and not know ASL. So after I graduated from Gallaudet, I took a job at Texas School for the Deaf in Austin. That was my first teaching job. I was there for two years. While I was there, I had the opportunity to travel to Paraguay, South America, and work with a group of deaf children, just for a summer, which was life changing because they didn't have running water, no electricity. They had dirt floors, you know, animals were everywhere, like farm animals. So it was really eye opening, and it was the first time that I felt really connected to a community, because they were really protective. And when they asked how you were, they really wanted to know how you were. It wasn't just like, I'm fine, you know. So then I left back to school for the deaf and went to Tokyo, Japan for two years and taught at a school for the deaf there. And then, while I was in Japan, my stepfather, who was probably more like my father, became ill and got sick. And so I moved closer to home, New York City, where I was for eight years, and I was a teacher for the deaf, there a related service provider. So what that means is I went to various schools and pulled out deaf children, hard of hearing children, and worked with them on guild on pretty much like, quote, unquote, being hearing, you know, in a classroom. And then after eight years in New York City, I moved home to be in Syracuse, and one of my jobs was at Arise, which is an independent living center in Syracuse. So they're, they're very strong on advocacy, Disability Rights, the disability identity, and that's really where my identity shaped, my disability identity. And then I also, while I was at Arise, decided to go to SU for graduate school, and I initially started with early intervention in the School of Ed, but as I was taking it, I realized it was more medical based, like it was more about correcting the disability, and not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but I was more about like working where the child is and where the family is, and kind of embracing the disability. So then I started taking a lot of classes in the Disability Studies program, even though that's not what my degree is in. So I took a whole bunch of classes in that and then I decided I didn't want to teach in the classroom, so I ended up getting a master's in curriculum development, so I'm not really sure what that means, but basically it was a master's. And then a few more years at Arise, and then there was a position that opened up. And back then it was called ODS, the Office for Disability Services. I think a position opened up. I went there for an interview. They must have liked me, because they offered me the job. And that was right before covid hit. So it was in the fall of 2019 and then my first some fall of 2019 when I started, and that was when I first started working with this. Actually, I'm sorry, so incoming students had already . I arrived because I started in October, so I was basically just working with the students who registered late, and they were already here. And then, I'm not exactly sure, but somehow, the chair for the School of Ed found out I was working here and asked if I wanted to teach part time, because one of the teachers was leaving. It was actually a hearing teacher who asked me if I wanted the position. And so I went for an interview, I was offered the job, and then I started teaching two classes, and that first semester that I was teaching was in January, so it would have been spring 2020. Was when covid hit, right? And that was, that was a game changer for everyone, like, within a week, if you recall, we were on spring break, and I had to totally put everything online. But, you know, the students were great. And then after that, I've been teaching now. So that was 2020, and it'll be six years just January. So wow, time goes by fast. So that's how I ended up here. And then CDR, the Center for Disability Resources, they do follow the social justice model about, you know, disability being an identity and so forth, but they're also, we're now going back to more where having an accommodation has to be about access, not about success. So I mean, because if you think about it, extended time really could help everyone, right? So it really has to be about like you do have a disability, and it does impact your comprehension or your your processing speed, so therefore, maybe you should get time and Apple double time, whereas before, we were kind of just like giving students double time, because that's what they had in high school, but then we were learning, like, most of the time they didn't even use the double time. So we really started to kind of scale back on just giving out accommodations, which is a good thing, because it does teach the student like, Okay, you need to start being more independent. You know, instead of just giving many student peer note takers, we gave them software and the tools so that they can take their own notes. So there is kind of a shift there.

Amy Messersmith 16:56
Looking at how your journey has been. It's really interesting because where you have landed, you've stayed for an extended period of time. In my head, I have just like this visual of a map and like, just like this path from geographic location to geographic location, and how it kind of made this circle back to here,

Michael Mazzaroppi 17:17
to my hometown. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Amy Messersmith 17:21
It�s really interesting that your first semester teaching was Spring 2020, yeah. I mean, talk about jumping in with both feet

Michael Mazzaroppi 17:31
Yeah,yeah. And pretty much, you know, Su, like, there's no so my supervisor didn't know, didn't know sign, didn't know anything about ASL, a very nice gentleman, but he didn't know anything. So really it was up to me to create my own curriculum, which I did, and then when we had that person join to try to build up the ASL program, we did start to get more unified, but then she left, and so we still do work together, and there is a little more collaboration with the other ASL teachers in the school of ed. We do have meetings too but it's mostly to plan out for teaching. Not so much about what curriculum we're using, but I believe we're all using the same curriculum. We just might be presenting it differently, Yeah.

Amy Messersmith 18:14
Right. So this podcast is called Lonely Campus, and so one of the goals is to acknowledge that sometimes students do feel loneliness in this new environment, and we want to reassure them that they're not the only ones who have gone through this. And so if you're willing to share, can you think back to your journey and path and maybe speak to any periods where you can remember experiencing loneliness, and were there times where you felt that you were experiencing a lack of sense of belonging.

Michael Mazzaroppi 18:46
Yeah. One really important time in my life was my first semester at Gallaudet. So I need to backtrack a little bit. So back in March 1988 which was a long time ago for most people, there was a protest on Gallaudet campus. It is called duck president now, and if you're interested in learning more about this, maybe by the end when I speak, there's actually now a documentary on Apple. It just came out, like not even two months ago. It was produced by Niall DeMarco. So anyway, watching that documentary was emotional, because it brought back to a lot of why I chose to go to Gallaudet. So my identity as growing up until I was 18 was okay. I wear hearing aids, but, you know, I tried to hide them. I tried to fit in. You know, I could do anything hearing people could, but I didn't want people to know that I was, back then, hard of hearing. So one night, I was at my great grandmother's. We were having dinner, and I remember seeing on the news like the protest that made national news. And I remember, I don't it's really hard to explain, unless you're in my similar situation where I was like, Wait, they're deaf, like I saw fraternity letters and. Yeah, and I saw them, like, on a campus, and I was like, they look like me, like, you know, I never had anyone to compare that to before, right? And I remember just being like, Mom, I want to go check out that school, because I was looking at schools at the time. And my mom was like, Yeah, I think we should. So we did. I think, like that fall. So that was in March. So that fall, we went and we visited the campus, and everyone there was so welcoming and seeing, like all the deaf students. And, you know, a lot of people would think, Oh, the campus would be quiet because everyone's deaf. But my mom and my grandmother, who joined, can tell you, No, that's not true, because they can't hear when they pull chairs and they do yell and, you know, so it can be noisy. But anyway, I knew that was the only school I wanted to go to, like all the other schools I had applied for, I'm like, Nope, I want to go to Gallaudet. I just had that strong of a connection. So I applied, and I was accepted. I was a little worried because I didn't know ASL. I never took ASL,

Amy Messersmith 21:01
Oh, wow.

Michael Mazzaroppi 21:02
I did take a summer of signed English, which is different, but I didn't know. ASL, so in the summer of 1989 I went to Gallaudet three weeks early, because they did have a program called the new signers program. And I do believe, because of that protest, 1988 protest, a lot of deaf and hard of hearing individuals like me were attracted to Gallaudet, even though they didn't sign like they were like, wow. There were 50 students in that program, like my age and incoming and even from other countries. So we were there for three weeks. I took level 101, really connected with all these other students, because they were like me, like they were deaf, and they went to hearing schools, and so everything was great, but then classes started, so that means like the regular student body was returning to campus, and it was eye opening, because most of them have come from schools for the deaf, So they knew ASL and they knew each other, but I didn't know. I didn't have that background. So I was from a public school. I was what they call oral and, believe it or not, deaf people didn't accept that. They didn't like it. It was like, you know, you can go to any other school. Why are you here? Even though I'm deaf? So there were many times when you felt lonely. And luckily, I had my roommate who was also in the sign program, the new signers program, so we were very close. And I just remember feeling so lonely and not and being surprised, because I thought, Well, wait a minute, I'm deaf. Just because I don't sign doesn't mean I'm different from you, right? And I remember being home ,like December, January, being like, Mom, I don't know if I want to return. And my mom was like, Well, why don't you just give it another semester? Okay, why don't you give it another semester, and then come May, if you're not happy at Gallaudet, then apply to other schools, transfer to another school. So I'm like, okay, so luckily, I luckily her advice was right, because that semester, I made friends. Like by then, I was signing more and more and more, and I had made many friends, and I decided to go with a group to Mexico to study in Mexico, and became friends with them, and then I couldn't wait to go back that following fall. So that's important because, you know, there's always something called the honeymoon stage. So when you first get to SU everything might be new, and it's great you're away from your parents, but eventually that wears off, and you might think, Okay, that's it. That's the end. I need to leave. But, you know, you really should try to give it another six months so that spring. And you might be surprised, you might finally find your group of people. You might finally find your place on campus. You know, I think, unfortunately, today's youth in today's, what do you call it, society? I think we give up too quickly, like, oh, not working out. Let's quit. You know, I think marriage, you know, people divorce, like, but I really do think you need to just stick it out, as long as it's not hurting you. You know, you're just not feeling it like you need to stick it out, and then if it doesn't work, then you can always transfer out.

Amy Messersmith 24:16
I: It's interesting. I agree too, and I feel like there's this misperception of conflict being bad, or being presented with a challenge is a bad thing, and so therefore you turn away from it and try something where they, you imagine there won't be conflict or a challenge. But instead, I think it's we're presented with challenges to challenge us, and, you know, to kind of dig in and dig deep. And, you know, see who you are in the face of the challenge. And that's a growth opportunity. You know, it's like by retreating. And, you know, I agree, everything's on a spectrum. So if it's incredibly damaging, obviously you don't want to go and unnecessarily stay in a harmful situation. But at the same time, I also think that, you know, you don't want to rob yourself of an opportunity to overcome, you know that that provides you something valuable moving forward. You know?

Michael Mazzaroppi 25:11
Yeah,I agree. And another thing, people need to remember that although it may seem like it's forever, it's not so if you're in a class, and maybe a lot of them are kind of like, you just don't feel it. In that class, there's a group of people who are just kind of like, I get that a lot in ASL. Like that can really make a big difference. If I have one or two students who are just not into it, and it'll make all other students kind of like, be quiet because they don't want to appear like, off or different. So just remember, like, eventually that class will end and you can move on. Eventually that year will end, and you can move on if you don't really get along with a roommate, but it's okay and you want to change it, eventually it's gonna end. Like, everything ends at some point. And I think people need to remember that like instead of just trying to end it that day.

Amy Messersmith 26:03
And it's interesting. The one thing that I've noticed, and I think this probably has to do with social media and cell phones and communication and connectedness, but you know, this degree of self consciousness in students is just off the charts. Oh yeah, you know. And that makes me feel so sad, because it's like the five students in the class who are making other students feel self conscious, and, you know, kind of pull themselves back as well. It's like you guys are losing the opportunity to express joy or express, you know, humor or to just kind of be organically students, you know, like that's, that's where authentic human, lived experience comes from. And if you're just kind of, kind of shrink and try to, what you prioritize is other people's perceptions of you, which you know you think you might have some control over but you really don't. It's like, that's such a I don't know, it makes me sad.

Michael Mazzaroppi 27:05
Yeah, that's why I always admire students that, like, will come into my office, or even in my class where, or they're quirky, yeah, and they don't care. Or they might even, like, um, maybe they're in the process of transitioning, or maybe not, but they might wear like maybe they paint their nails or wear a pearl necklace like a guy. I always admire that, and they don't care what other people think. But that's few, not many.

Amy Messersmith 27:33
Me too. It's like that. That is what college is supposed to be about, is is figuring out who you are and exploring that

Michael Mazzaroppi 27:41
when I was their age. I'll be honest when I was their age, I don't know if I could have done that. I can now, now that I'm older, with my peers, males my age or females, but I think when I was that age, I don't know if I could have done that.

Amy Messersmith 27:53
Thank you for sharing your experience at Gallaudet, and I feel that was really insightful.

Michael Mazzaroppi 27:58
Yeah, of course.

Amy Messersmith 28:00
So the next question has to do with a sense of belonging. And so do you mind sharing? What does a sense of belonging feel like to you? How might you describe it, and what would you imagine students are looking for when they seek a sense of belonging?

Michael Mazzaroppi 28:16
I mean to me, a sense of belonging means that like you, you can truly be yourself and, and you're comfortable with that, right? You can walk into a classroom and you're not really concerned about what other people think. So to me, that's a sense of belonging, like, where you can really be yourself, where maybe, like people will laugh, or, you know, maybe have the same values and beliefs and so forth. I mean, I think when students are seeking a sense of belonging, I think they're looking for the same thing, like they just want to be accepted by their peers. You know, sometimes with some of the students in CDR, it's painful. Like, for example, there's a young man, obviously, I'm not going to say his name, but I think for like, four semesters, he's tried to rush and interview, and he never gets in. And it's painful to see that, because he takes it to heart. And I just want to be like, who cares? And I know you see a lot of frat parties and sorority parties, but the majority of the students at SU really aren't involved in frat it just looks it just looks like they are, but they're not. So you just need to find your group that's not in the frats, fraternities. And that's the other thing too. I always like it when I see young women and young men who I mistakenly assumed, oh, they're gonna rush, and they tell me no. And I'm always like, wow, that's really cool. Like you, you understand that a fraternity needs sorority, not the only thing. I mean, if you, if you like that, then absolutely you should rush. But I don't think that should be like, if you don't get into it at the end of the world.

Amy Messersmith 29:56
I think that at that age, this idea that. At, you know it like it gives you a formula to belong. And at that age, I would imagine it's very seductive, like, Wow, if I gain entry into this group, I will blatantly be labeled in a way that has to do with belonging to a group. And it's, it's like this quick fix, almost, that they imagine the solution is outside of themselves. If I get into this group, then I will feel a certain way, and it'll validate all the things I think about myself in this way, and I agree it's like, no, the answer is not out there. Don't let them define how you feel about yourself whether you get in or not, the answer is, somewhere in you, you know, you have to dig deep and find that sense of validation, with or without the letters on your shirt, and that's a much harder pill to swallow. But I'm totally with you, and I wish there were spaces where we could have these conversations, and maybe we're starting one. Now, you know that, yes, categorizing ourselves and you know, different rankings, it lays it out like it's so blatant, like, if I get into this organization, I have all this social capital all of a sudden, and, you know, but,

Michael Mazzaroppi 31:23
and it goes back to where eventually it ends. You know, when you graduate, it ends, you know, I mean, there are a few people who who stay involved into their adulthood, but I think most people it ends at some point, and then they realize, Oh, why did I put so much value into that,

Amy Messersmith 31:40
right? Or you think about, you know, the certain controversial aspects of it, and it's like, what did I compromise to be a part of that group? How did I lose my sense of self? And the other thing that I think is something that I've been thinking a lot about lately, is how malleable the human mind is, and how you know what you would imagine you would never do at week two of the process, maybe by week eight. It's the sunk cost fallacy, like I've already put in all this time. I'm committed to this organization, and all of a sudden I'm doing things that I never imagined I would be okay with doing.

Michael Mazzaroppi 32:20
I mean, actually, I did rush and was accepted into a fraternity, you know, only because my roommate and two of my friends I had already rushed, and they were in the same fraternity. And so I was like, okay, the minute I got done and became a brother like that semester, I was like, why am I in this? So sometimes that expression, like, What's the expression greener on the inside?

Amy Messersmith 32:46
The grass is greener on the other side.

Michael Mazzaroppi 32:48
yeah. And I'm like, that's what it was when I wasn't a brother. But then once I became a brother, I was like, Okay, why am I in this? And actually, I got blackballed, and I was kind of happy because I was like, good. I didn't want to be a member. But one of the reasons, which really turned me off was when the next group came to interview the next group of young men. There was one that was a little effeminate and like, crossed his legs. And I remember after he left, some of the brothers just made fun of him, and I was like, what, this is, what we are like just because he crossed his legs, like, okay, no, and that really was significant for me, and I think that's why I just stopped and became blackballed, and I wasn't out yet, but it just turned me off so much

Amy Messersmith 33:33
so there was something in you that you knew was firm enough in yourself that knew and could absorb all the quote, unquote negative consequences. Yeah?

Michael Mazzaroppi 33:43
Just, like, really, like, what are we in fourth grade? Like, yeah, it was really, it was cruel.

Amy Messersmith 33:48
I hope, I hope students feel comfortable talking about this stuff. You know, it's like, we need other voices, yeah, in these dialogs and students who are kind of standing at the crossroads, maybe they're only hearing one side of the story, and if they hear the other, then it kind of helps them make a more rounded decision

Michael Mazzaroppi 34:05
And again, I want to emphasize like, if you want to join the Greek hood or the fraternity sorority, that's fine, just don't make it like it's the most important thing here at SU, in my opinion, right? Yeah,

Amy Messersmith 34:19
don't reduce yourself to it. So thinking about, you know what a sense of belonging feels like, looking at loneliness, how did you cope with your feelings of loneliness and lack of sense of belonging and whatever you're comfortable sharing? Obviously, you know, share, whatever you're comfortable sharing.

Michael Mazzaroppi 34:39
I think because I grew up with significant hearing loss, like, you know, hard of hearing, and then deaf and wearing hearing aids, I always got used to doing things independently. So I'm not sure how much this is gonna help, but, like, I didn't mind going to the movie theater by myself and watching a movie. Now I wouldn't go at like seven o'clock on a Friday night when it was date night. But like, if I wanted to see a movie and I knew no one else was gonna go, I would go. Like, I would go, usually Sunday afternoon or Saturday afternoon. If I waited until I met someone who was interested in traveling to Europe or Asia, then I would never have gone so like Japan, I applied myself and went there by myself. Recently, I just got back from England, I was there for two weeks, and again, another thing, I just went myself, flew there myself, and stayed there and made friends. I mean, I did eventually join up with a group of other deaf people who had the same interest, but they live in other parts of the country. But my point being you really need to be happy with yourself, and you need to be comfortable being by yourself and knowing that that's okay. Actually, you know you don't need to be around people all the time, like for me, I actually need a break from people.

Amy Messersmith 36:02
I think students need to hear that, because there's such an imagined stigma of being by yourself, and it's you know, people might be projecting their fears onto that situation, but the lived experience is so much more empowering, like if you can get to the space where you give yourself permission to move through the world in ways that are based on your interest and curiosities and not the imagined perception of what other people are gonna think. If you go by yourself, then that's so much more empowering.

Michael Mazzaroppi 36:31
Yeah, yeah. I remember back at Gallaudet, I was probably a senior, and I remember like it was probably a Friday night, and I remember, like, two guys, by then, I had come out of the closet, and two of my friends were like, What are you doing tonight? I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna catch a go to dinner and catch a movie. This was in DC, Washington, and they're like, oh, who you going with? And I was like, by myself. And they're like, Oh, why? And I was like, why not? I was like, I like, you know, I can eat and I can watch people, and then I'm on my own time, and then I can see movie I want to see. And then I just had back, and they were like, wow, that's cool. I mean, they weren't like, why would you do that? At first they were but then once I told them, they were like, oh. And anyway, my point being is, people actually probably think that's pretty cool, that you're willing to do that yourself. But then at the same time, maybe the following week, you join your friends. You know you don't feel like you always have to do something with your friends. I know for me, I've met a lot of people in my life who, even if they don't like the people, they'll still go with them, just because it's a social thing to do where I'm like if I don't like you, I'm not gonna join you, right? You know? And that's okay.

Amy Messersmith 37:46
That's so refreshing.

Michael Mazzaroppi 37:48
And you also have to remember social media. I learned this a few years ago. Nobody ever posts pictures when they're unhappy. Have you ever seen people look I'm miserable today, and then there's a picture of them? No people post they'll take 30 pictures of the same shot until they get the right one, and then they'll post it. And that's not true.

Amy Messersmith 38:09
It's crafted,

Michael Mazzaroppi 38:11
Right, right? So you can look at social media and Facebook and Instagram, which I do, but you also have to remember that 95% of this, it's not how they're really feeling all the time. 100% Yeah,

Amy Messersmith 38:22
so that's interesting. Your approach to coping with loneliness is just to kind of accept it. And it's like, if you have, you know, a night where you can stay home and, you know, sit with it, so you write, or you can go out and do the things that you wanted to do, even if you don't have anybody. I mean, it's just so simple.

Michael Mazzaroppi 38:46
I was just gonna say, this is very simplistic. Tomorrow's a new day. Okay? So if you feel lonely, watch TV, go to bed and remember the next day is a new day. Yeah, I've always lived by that. You know, there have been many times when I've been like, Oh, I wish I'd gone out, or like, I wonder what my friends are doing. And like, you know what? I'll just follow up with them tomorrow. It's a new day. It's hard though, I think for a lot of young people to do that, you know? So, especially now with social media.
Amy Messersmith 39:13
I agree. So looking back on your journey, and you know, we could look at Japan, we can look at Gallaudet, we could look at Syracuse, we could look at New York City, whatever speaks to you in terms of this question, what steps did you take to figure out the spaces and places where you found your sense of belonging? And for example, at SU like, whether on campus or not, can you describe the places and people who provided a sense of community for you? And how do you maintain that once you have it?

Michael Mazzaroppi
One of the things that I really encourage young people, and I still do to this day, one of the things I love is I'll go to Barnes and Nobles or a coffee shop, there's so many coffee shops, and take a book or a laptop and sit. Are around people. I don't know these people. I'm probably not gonna even talk to them, but look at all these people. They're the same, they're doing the same thing I'm doing. So you're not you're alone, but you're not so I that's how I dealt with a lot of life, feeling alone when I lived in New York City, like when, especially when I first moved there, and I didn't know a lot of people, how I actually met people. I was going to different cafes, and, you know, I had to do it many, many times, and then eventually someone would be like, Hey, I've seen you a couple of times in here. Are you from this area? And I'm like, oh, no, I'm actually from Syracuse. I just moved here, and then we became friends. So I really do think go to places, spaces, coffee shops, and the library. You can even go to a library, because usually people are studying alone, and you're alone, but you're not. I do that too in Japan again, it was great at first, because everyone's like, Oh, he's a new, like, new foreigner. And again, that whole honeymoon, and at first it was great. But what I did, though, when I started to feel like, okay, I needed a break and not feel so isolated. When I was living in Japan, Dunkin Donuts was really popular. They were just opening up everywhere. But they were nice Dunkin Donuts, not like ours, like they were trendy and so and we had one in our small town, and I would go there, like on a Friday night. And I remember joking like, I because back then, I kept a diary, because it wasn't, um, we didn't have the internet yet. And I remember seeing like, here I am on a Friday night hanging out in Dunkin Donuts. And like, who does that? But, um, in Japan, it was like, everyone did that. So again, go find your spaces, even if you're going there by yourself, but you're not by yourself.

Amy Messersmith 41:42
What do you think it is about your willingness to take the first couple steps, like what happens in your thought process, from when you're at home to when you're moving towards the door?

Michael Mazzaroppi 41:54
So I should kind of backtrack, but I grew up in a very single parent household, but all my uncles and cousins were very much athletic, and they played sports, and I did not. And they were very much into team sports, like the Steelers and NFL and Su basketball, and I wasn't at all like, really didn't care about sports. And so I always felt left out because of that, because they go to the dome and obviously they didn't ask me, because they knew I didn't like sports. But I always knew that there was more out there, more than what is in my current environment. I always knew that not every male in the world likes sports, right? And I think my mom told me that too, you know, like I was 15 and shows, you know, Michael, eventually, when you go to college, you're gonna meet your own people. Not everyone plays sports, and she was right, especially in large cities, not every male, including straight men, are athletic or play sports and and then I even have gay friends who are into sports. So my point being somehow, I just knew there was more than what was in my current environment, and I just had to seek it.

Amy Messersmith 43:02
I think I experienced something similar like that, that not having all your needs met at home made it a lot easier to go out and seek it and explore in other places. For me, it was my emotional needs. Once you have that outside looking in perspective and you've lived it, then you're drawn towards other people and supporting other people in those situations. And so that's kind of been my theme throughout my professional work that I've done.

Michael Mazzaroppi 43:29
We have similar backgrounds, but for different reasons.

Amy Messersmith 43:33
It's interesting.

Michael Mazzaroppi 43:34
Yeah, definitely.

Amy Messersmith 43:36
The final question is just thinking about current students who are on campus or will be coming to campus for this coming fall. What words of encouragement or advice might you have for them, who might be experiencing similar feelings of loneliness and isolation, and if you don't mind, speak directly to them and give them your words of wisdom.

Michael Mazzaroppi 43:58
Yeah, so if you're coming to campus, or if you're already here. I really can't stress, remember, eventually it will end. So if you're not feeling it, it will end. You know, if you're not happy with a roommate event, it will end. However, don't stay in that situation if it's harmful. But just remember, though it will end also like seeking out organizations that might have a similar interest if you're thinking like LGBTQ, plus there's organizations here on campus, if you are feeling more like leaning towards marginalized groups. There's different group representations on campus. Also, now you have the internet, Google, and walks in the area like, you know, like Onondaga Parkway. Go to a gym if you really don't like being around Su students a lot, like a ton of them, you know, join a gym that's in the community. Go to the gym on campus only as needed. Again, go to those spaces like Barnes and Nobles, or cafes. That is not right on campus, if you need a break from campus, but if you don't need a break from campus, go to the library. Like, don't stay in your room and study, unless that prevents you from studying. You gotta do what's for you. But I know, like for me, like, obviously I can take my hearing aids off, but most of you can't do that, so maybe just wear, like, noise canceling headphones or something. And then you really be surprised at how less lonely you'll feel if you look around the library and you say, wow, there's 75 other students here by themselves doing the same thing I'm doing. You're not alone. You're alone physically, but you're not so those are some things I would do. Join a travel group, you know, do SU Abroad. One of the things too, that a lot of the students I noticing are they don't want to do homestays anymore, but I would do a homestay because then you're going to learn a language, and you'll become friends with those that family, and then you can always go back, you know, if you have a really good time. I don't know, that's me, yeah, just nothing's forever.

Amy Messersmith 46:02
It's interesting. I've been thinking about, you know, your advice of just going into spaces and being present. And lately I've been looking at everything from the lens of, like, energy, and it's like, even if you're not speaking with somebody, you guys are still communicating in some way. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're still exchanging information and your presence is impacting them, and their presence is impacting you.

Michael Mazzaroppi 46:28
Yeah. I mean, all it takes is you can go into, like, I'm gonna use Barnes and Nobles. You go in the Barnes and Nobles, you sit at a table, and you look, and there's just a person across from you, and they just smile that like, makes your whole night, yeah, maybe you won't say anything else, but just the fact that someone smiled or acknowledged you, it's a game changer. Yeah,

Amy Messersmith 46:47
yeah. Well, Michael, anything else you want to add?

Michael Mazzaroppi 46:51
No, just if you're listening and you haven't taken ASL, think about it. It doesn't have to be with me, but think about ASL, because people who take ASL, they have a certain personality like you have to really want to work with a marginalized group and understand a marginalized group. It's not just signing. There's a whole deaf community. And then also, even if you're not registered with our office, you can always find me at the Center for Disability Resources at 804 University, Ave third floor if you just need to talk.

Amy Messersmith 47:21
Fantastic. Michael, thank you so much for being willing to sit down and share your story. Yeah, you've been incredibly generous, and it's just been a joy to hear your story.

Michael Mazzaroppi 47:33
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Amy Messersmith 47:34
Thank you all right. Bye, everybody.

Armando Martinez 47:50
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Lonely Campus Podcast. I'm Armando Martinez, Director of inclusion and belonging. If you found this podcast helpful. Let us know and feel free to share other ways we can make campus more welcoming and inclusive to all. Thank you.