lonely campus podcast

Episode 3: lonely campus podcast with Nate LeForme

Mary Grace Almandez 00:11
Hi, I'm Mary Grace Almandez is the vice president for diversity and inclusion. Welcome to the lonely campus podcast as presented by the Office of Diversity and Inclusion. This show is hosted by our administrative fellow Amy Messersmith. And feature students just like you who share stories about the challenges and triumphs that come with trying to find your place on Syracuse University's campus.

Amy Messersmith 00:43
Hi, everybody, this is Amy Messersmith. I'm an associate director for Trio Student Support Services here at Syracuse University. And I'm also an Office of Diversity and Inclusion administrative fellow. My project is a podcast series called lonely campus. And my project is a pop up podcasting studio. And so today, we are popping up at 113 Euclid, and I'm super excited to be sitting here with Nate LeForme. How are you doing?

Nate LeForme 01:12
Well, thanks for inviting me.

Amy Messersmith 01:14
Fantastic. So Nate, why don't we start with you telling us a little bit about who you are? How you got here. What brought you to Syracuse University.

Nate LeForme 01:27
Well, my name is Nate. I am a transfer student who came from the Seneca Nation. I transferred to su last year. And that's how I got here.

Amy Messersmith 01:45
What drew you to su?

Nate LeForme 01:49
M. I really like to the aesthetic of the university, like the old buildings, the sort of academic field to the place. I'd like the land here. It's like hilly, I've always liked Hills mountains. The old buildings were nice to visit. Just it was my dream school. So I, I've always wanted to come here. I don't know what else to say about that.

Amy Messersmith 02:25
Do you mind sharing a little bit about your academic interests? And what you are studying here?

Nate LeForme 02:34
Sure. So I'm in philosophy right now. Philosophy is like, it deals with really abstract concepts. And how to think about those. So that's, I applied to philosophy, because it was because of that, like thinking abstractly. My ultimate goal is to transfer to computer science, because I like information. And I like solving problems and math and building things. So those two are few of my interests. I also have interest in human cognition. Like learning what thinking means learning about how that how to build those things, in terms of machines that can think like artificial intelligence, I guess. So all those things together is, is why what I'm basically interested in.

Amy Messersmith 03:45
Interesting, I know that you said that you were a transfer student. And so I think this question might land a little bit differently as a transfer student, but do you mind sharing a little bit about maybe what you imagined college to be like, or what you imagined coming to Su would be like.

Nate LeForme 04:05
um, I didn't really know how to approach because it's huge compared to my other institution, like, like we're talking five times the size, maybe because there's only 1000 students at the end, but there's 20,000 here. The math doesn't really match up there. So imagining how to come here was was was really, really difficult. Like this is the most people I've ever been around, like, growing up on reservation, you don't meet a lot of people, you know. So, so yeah, I am. It was really intimidating, because there's a lot of rules on college campuses that you have to follow. Like you You can't park in this spot, but you can park in this one, you know, you can't move in earlier than this time. But not later this time, you know, just arbitrary, meaningless rules like that. So, yeah, that's that's how that went. But it was it was fine.

Amy Messersmith 05:22
I'm just kind of curious, how do you navigate having to live within these different rules, all of a sudden?

Nate LeForme 05:34
It's pretty rough. Because, ah, like, it's kind of like you have to learn a new language, you have to learn a new culture. And like, like a culture shock type of thing where you don't know how to act, but everyone around you expects you to act this way. So it's like, when you don't act that way they take it as a you're, you're a fringe personality or something, or, you know, and I understand because culture is so ingrained in the human, human human brain, where we create these tribes, and then we assign value based on if someone follows the rules of the tribe. So learning the new culture is difficult, because they're all implicit rules. They don't really everyone else here knows what to do. But I don't. That's, I guess, the best way to say. So. When I asked, like people like you, in those in authority, they're like, I've never been asked that question before. Let me let me help you, you know, so it's very vulnerable position to put yourself in. And that can be intimidating. It's, it's been difficult, but I have been able to survive and get through it.

Amy Messersmith 07:16
I'm just imagining that, you know, the common assumption is, with college, most of the learning happens inside the classroom. But for students from different backgrounds and cultures, it's like, you're learning everywhere. And that can be pretty exhausting, I imagine.

Nate LeForme 07:35
Yeah. Yeah. Like I learned from watching people, like, like, I just watched how other students behave or where they go and kind of not mimic? What's the word? imitate what they do? Yeah, like? I don't know. So that helps. Because blending in is like such a thing to do, if you want to not appear. Weird, I guess.

Amy Messersmith 08:15
100%.

Nate LeForme 08:17
So yeah. And I just the problem is not to like lose who you are in in that process. Like, you want to change a lot about yourself. I don't know if that answers your question or not.

Amy Messersmith 08:37
100%. You know, it's interesting. I am 48 years old. I was adopted. I was born in Seoul, South Korea, in 1975. They think I don't know what my birthday is. And some kind gentleman brought me to an orphanage. And then at seven months, I was adopted into a family in Baldwinsville, which is like 20 minutes outside of Syracuse. And I grew up in a white family and I grew up in a very white community, and being other like, there's, like, I'm very familiar with white culture, but I never will be white culture at the same time. And so growing up with that awareness that, you know, wherever I go, especially in a predominantly white community, my outside is a liability. Being Asian as a liability. It's like I, if if some kid is going to target somebody to make fun of like, I'm an easy target, because I look different, and there's nothing I can do about it. The impact it had was it made me very observant. And it was a survival. It was a survival like I have to make sure that I minimize my difference as much as possible. So very similarly, like observing how people act what they said what they didn't say in order to, quote on quote, pass as much as I could to kind of soften the otherness, so that maybe I can exist in some degree of peace. But it definitely had an impact on how I move through the world, how I saw the world. And so it's not exactly what you're describing and what you're going through, but I kinda, I kind of can relate in some ways, I guess.

Nate LeForme 10:26
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a good parallel. I liked how you could just go to survival instincts, like, because that's basically what you're doing, you know, this is entirely new place, and, like, I want to be here. And in order to do that, you have to adopt some of the practices that other people will do.

Amy Messersmith 10:52
And I liked how you were talking about how you don't want to lose yourself at the same time.

Nate LeForme 10:59
Because like, like, I like wearing like cultural regalia. You know, I get looks all the time, because everyone else just wears Nike or whatever. And I like those things, too, like, I have actually have Nike on anything. But I also I guess, part of it is to educate people, there are different cultures here. We are here, you know. So I don't want to lose that, because we've lost so much already. Speaking of indigenous people. So that's mostly what I meant when I said, I don't want to lose that part.

Amy Messersmith 11:52
I see is a very interesting place because we have a history of, you know, relative to other institutions, a history of inclusivity that, you know, has historically been, like, more so than other institutions, I guess. But we've got the student population where it's like, it's a private, it's a predominantly white private institution. And so, we have the existence of different backgrounds and cultures, but it's it's a weird vibe. I don't know how to describe it, you know, there's not necessarily a blending happening, like an interaction like, a genuine inclusivity yeah, there's

Nate LeForme 12:38
like a clear, almost like a class type distribution. There's different classes on campus that I represented one being dominant one and the rest being the other, I guess, from an actual anthropological perspective.

Amy Messersmith 13:03
I'm just really grateful that 113 exists. You know, can imagine if it didn't,

Nate LeForme 13:09
yeah, yeah. It's, um, it's like home. Yeah.

Amy Messersmith 13:15
It's literally creating, it's literally in a home. You know, yeah, it creates that sometimes, like the idea of attachment theory, like comes into play, I think, I use it as like, a frame of reference. So it's like this becomes your anchor, you know, and you can go out into the world into the campus and knowing that you can always come back here and kind of re remind yourself who you are again, you know, you recharge and

Nate LeForme 13:48
then go back and then go and drain your battery so, yeah, it's not an office building. We got comfortable chairs. So yeah, it's comfortable here. Like awesome.

Amy Messersmith 14:08
Could you tell us a little bit about your movement experience? And then like, what were your first few days on campus like.

Nate LeForme 14:18
a move in was pretty stressful. i Everything was last minute like I did everything last minute like check all the emails last minute. I had to coordinate with my mother where to park so it was like, Go Go, go, go, go go. You know, and when I got here, they were less strict about everything than I was expecting. Like South Campus is like you just can kind of do whatever. But you can park anywhere they allowed you to park without the the past They gave me so she was able to just park and then we could move in. So it was stressful coming up. But then when he got here, it was like, Oh, this is easy. Yeah, so that was a relief. Nice. first few days was pretty difficult. Cuz like I didn't, like I said, I did everything last minute. I didn't look at the maps of the place. So, first day of class was finding my classrooms. And, you know, yeah, all of that. So, that was, it was my fault. But it was, it was I know where everything is now. You know, I spent the time to find all the, the buildings and all the individual classrooms. So I'm pretty chaotic person.

Amy Messersmith 16:01
So I was just gonna ask, like, the last minute thing, is that just a pattern? Or was,

Nate LeForme 16:07
Thats just me. Okay. That just me man, Like, I'm just chaotic. In general. That always happens throughout life.

Amy Messersmith 16:17
That's interesting. Well, it worked out.

Nate LeForme 16:20
Yeah, it did.

Amy Messersmith 16:23
At what point? Did you realize that you were experiencing feelings of loneliness? or at what point? Were you aware that you were missing a sense of belonging here?

Nate LeForme 16:35
Um, maybe like, the third week? Because I didn't. I hadn't really made any friends yet. So of course, was getting harder. So I had really have a social network to rely on, which usually, I, I would. So that was kind of like, those two things together were like a domino effect. It was like, Okay, I need to
make some friends. Because that'll help me. Like, stay on track find, in much like this place serve as a comforting sense of belonging. So, yeah, it was, it was a couple of weeks in that I realized it was kind of lonely here without, because you can get lost in such a sea of people. Like, 20,000 or so people hear, you know, you can get lost if you don't, if you don't advocate for yourself and find your way, I guess.

Amy Messersmith 17:51
100% Definitely. When you and I think it's really interesting that you tie those things together, that you you connect those dots, in terms of going through the experience of, you know, challenge challenges inside the classroom, and then linking it to because that kind of can pull the rug out from under you, like, kind of maybe shake your confidence a little bit or make you feel a little bit concerned about, you know, you know, can I do this? Am I in the right place? And then that can lead to? Wow, I'd really like to lean on somebody right now, but there's nobody to lean on at the moment.

Nate LeForme 18:38
Yeah, yeah. Well, because we are social creatures. And academic performance is tied to like,
that sense of belonging, like if you don't feel you belong, or you don't feel safe. You know, your grades can drop. So for like, quiet introverts like me, it's like, I guess I have to, but it's for your own good.

Amy Messersmith 19:09
How did you cope with your feelings of loneliness and lack of sense of belonging? Do you remember?

Nate LeForme 19:14
Yes. Well, I just had to be vulnerable. I reached out to Bailey. And I was like, I heard there's an indigenous student club here are a program and it's wondering if I can come to a meeting and meet some people, you know. That was one way so I you know, I came to the meetings I met a few people made some friends, you know. And I also explored other clubs, like pride union philosophy Club. I think that was all. No, but I just had to, like get myself out there like I talk talking to people was as it was my needs. So I did that working out can help too. Because loneliness manifests itself as like stress. And working out helps stress go away. At least it like releases endorphins in the brain that helps just keeping up with your diet and your sleep schedule. Because those can make things worse, like they can make stress worse, so I didn't want that to happen. It takes a lot of discipline and work but I, I did I survived? I guess.

Amy Messersmith 21:07
Do you mind? Talking? Do you mind sharing a little bit about first how you found the clubs and how you found Bailey?

Nate LeForme 21:18
Yeah, she she had emailed me one time. She has this list or whatever. And I was put on that list. So I had like the the emails about the Native student program, but I never really looked at them, I guess. Because in those first two weeks, there are so many emails that you get, like, professors, office emails, like the academics or the registrar or the campus safety, you get all those introductory emails like Hey, welcome, this is what you need to know, stuff like that. So Bailey's emails kind of got lost in all of those. So I didn't even bother. I was like, This is stressful. I'm just gonna block it out. But once everything settled down after the first couple of weeks, I I went to the the shine, the shine, the place where you find out the clubs, anyways, (Amy: shines? yes, shines student center), yeah, where the student government is. I was like, Is there any indigenous student clubs here? And she was like, Yeah, I can give you a link to all of our registered clubs. And I had also seen their Instagram page. So I had noticed those things. And it just had to send an email and follow up and be like, Hey, can I join? So yeah.

Amy Messersmith 22:58
Do you mind sharing a little bit about what it was like to kind of enter new spaces for the first time? Like your thought process? Did you have to like pump yourself up to go or was it just like, alright, I decided to go and I'm, I'm going, I'm doing it.

Nate LeForme 23:14
Yeah, it was like the shower thoughts at first, like, oh, I can do this, I can do this. And then when you step into the building, it's like, I can't do this. So I had to, like, kind of, like, pump myself up, because it's intimidating. When you finally get to the, to the place where you have to talk to people. So that was, that was a bit a hurdle that I had to get over. But um, yeah.

Amy Messersmith 23:51
Are you comfortable talking a little bit about because I identify as an introvert as well, although I am kind of like an outgoing introvert. But I need that time to recharge. I need that alone time kind of thing. Have you cracked the code of small talk?

Nate LeForme 24:09
not really no. I despise small town. It's just, it's fake. Like it's ritualistic. It's theater. It's like, I just want to know, like, I'm a big fan of objective based conversations, or, yeah, where you talk about one thing, and then you get it all worth. It's not like going through the theater of small talk. So I haven't now, that's a question No, I have not cracked that. The secret.

Amy Messersmith 24:45
human interaction is fascinating. You know.

Nate LeForme 24:48
It is yeah. Like if you if you think about how Americans will say, how are you? It's not actually saying how are you? They They're inviting you to enter sort of a social contract between you and them. And depending on your responses, how they assign value to you. I'm sorry, I'm speaking anthropology and psychology. But that's fine. I find that interesting.(Amy: I find that very interesting, too). So like, that's what small talk is, it's like, how long can you engage in a social contract with me? And they'll kind of assign value. You if if you can or not.

Amy Messersmith 25:41
It's funny, like, going back to like, my upbringing, around adolescence, I kind of felt this pressure that like, the community, my family, whoever was trying to, like, put me in a box or like, and I think that's what they do in general, with people, you know, fit this role of feminine like this role of what, what, you know, an appropriate acting, whatever 13 year old should be or whatever. And I remember like, intentionally going against that like, rebellious. Exactly. I'm not gonna I'm not going to jump through your hoops like, I'm not going to. So then I kind of, at the time, consciously decided I wasn't going to grow up. Yeah. But no, 48 it kind of screwed me because it's like, I'll have to interact with like, people who did grow up. Yeah. And it's like, I'm still like that 30 year old kitten. It's like, hi, like, I don't know. Yeah, so I guess like, it's not the best approach, because eventually you do have to, like, interact with people. And it's like, oh, I should have built those social skills back then. But yeah,

Nate LeForme 26:59
Yeah, that's, that's kind of I agree with that a bit. Because I'm, I'm the same way like, rebellious, like, I paint my nails I dress differently, you know. So I understand where you're coming from when you say you're sort of rebelling against the system or whatever.

Amy Messersmith 27:23
Yeah, it's interesting, because then it's like, those social interactions that, you know, your social skills toolbox that I should have been developing, like, I just was delayed. And so I didn't learn certain things that like now 48, like I shouldn't people expect me to know. All right, so we kind of touched on the next question, which was, what steps did you take to figure out the places and spaces on campus where you did find your sense of belonging. And so you talked about reaching out to Bailey and going to Cheyenne Student Center and looking for a list of student orgs to join, do you mind going into a little bit more description about the spaces and people who do provide a sense of community for you, and maybe how you go about maintaining those relationships.

Nate LeForme 28:19
So 113 is a good place. It's free, you know, and I just wish it was open longer. Because it closes at like seven, but like, there's a kitchen here, you know, it's just, it's just a very good place to be. And, you know, it offers all the things you need place to charge your stuff. This is a good place, I like it better than a library, because that's usually full. And there's not a lot of quiet places, but this place is always open. So it's close to the campus. Like, I can just walk to class whenever I need to. If I don't want to do that, then I'll go to the library. I'll go to shine. Get some Panda Express whatever. Another place I usually go is probably the computer labs and ECS. It's a nice place to just work on, grind the homework or whatever. What was the other?

Amy Messersmith 29:36
How do you go about maintaining this relation?

Nate LeForme 29:38
Oh, okay. So it just takes effort. I guess I just have to at the end of the day, you have to make time for social interaction. And it can be hard because you have 1000 Other things that I don't want to say more important, but it's like you have five versus it may be a couple labs, you know, so there's a lot of on the plate, but make time for social interaction takes effort. And that's just, if I don't do that, then it makes me sad, I guess. So I have to make that effort. And sometimes it means just I don't get to go to an event or something like that, like, there's a sacrifice I have to make with while sacrifice isn't the right word, because that means you're giving up something, but it's like you're gaining something. So making time for friends is, it takes effort. And it changes from semester to semester to like, last year was easy. Because it was, there was less pressure, but this, I feel like I have more pressure this semester. So just adulting is I don't know how you do it. Cuz it's like, it's just so complicated. And sometimes I feel like I have to plan and regimen everything. And that's just, it's dehumanizing. But I don't know, there's a sweet spot somewhere, and I'm still trying to find it. So is that different for everybody? So I just exploring that now is, it's good to just have to find it, I guess.

Amy Messersmith 31:52
Yeah, college is really interesting. Because it's like, it's interesting how, like, as a staff, I have to work like, you know, 830 to five, every day, Monday through Friday. And being a full time student, your schedules a little bit more flexible. I feel like you guys do like way more work? I don't know, it's because your evenings are taken over too. And your weekends are taken over. And so yeah, you might not be physically having to be somewhere from 8:30 to 5 every day, but something eating at you every day to do something.

Nate LeForme 32:30
Yeah, that's, that can be rough for, for, you know, especially first and like me, where it's like, everything on your plate is just thrown at you and figure it out, you know, so like, it's, it's helpful to talk to other people, because I, I wouldn't be able to fully think about possibilities without another perspective. So maybe if we can tie it back, it's like, talking to people also helps me figure out my own problems, and how to approach them, you know, a diverse perspective is better than a single perspective. So, so I don't feel overwhelmed. And like, Yeah,

Amy Messersmith 33:21
I think the what might be significant is to find the people that, is to find the people that you do authentically connect with who can provide those perspectives. You know, I think that that's, that's the part that is really key. It's not the quantity of people, you know, what's the quality and I think that having those people in your life can make a world of difference. It's just finding the right people.

Nate LeForme 33:48
Yeah, I agree. And that's one of the great places about SU is there's so many people, you can find them, you just have to be willing to look at. I Guess.

Amy Messersmith 34:02
Yeah. So, at this point, in your time at SU, do you feel like you've been able to find that sense of belonging?

Nate LeForme 34:12
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's like, being at home now. So it's, it's really fun. It just takes that you have to get over the hurdle. So I feel I feel comfortable. I have friends I have somewhat of a routine, you know, I just, I always wanted to be here. So I don't see another place for me, I guess. And I just left.

Amy Messersmith 34:45
Thats wonderful. And so finally, what words of encouragement or advice you have for incoming students who might be experiencing similar feelings of loneliness or isolation, and if you don't mind, speak directly to them and give them your words to Wisdom.

Nate LeForme 35:02
Well, I guess just for any incoming students, it would be in just explore the place, you know, that's what I did. I, I explored the buildings, and you can meet a lot of people in those buildings. So that's kind of how I made friends. Because there'd always be someone in the corner studying or something, I'll just walk up to them. So you can do that. Generally, people won't be like, Get away from me or whatever. I met friends in, in the class, someone who just we shared already something in common. So I keep saying this, but making friends is one of the best things that help me. So having that was was helpful. That helps the loneliness helps us isolation. I think that's, is that good?

Amy Messersmith 36:06
Thats fantastic. I really appreciate this, Nate. It's been a pleasure. All right. Bye, everybody.

Armando Martinez 36:29
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Lonely campus Podcast. I'm Armando Martinez, Director of inclusion and belonging. If you found this podcast helpful, let us know and feel free to share other ways we can make campus more welcoming and inclusive.