lonely campus podcast

Episode 10: lonely campus podcast with Alyssa Sutherland (Part 1)

Mary Grace Almandrez 00:11
Hi, I'm Mary Grace Almandrez, the vice president for diversity and inclusion. Welcome to the lonely campus podcast as presented by the Office of Diversity and Inclusion. This show is hosted by our administrative fellow Amy Messersmith, and features students just like you who share stories about the challenges and triumphs that come with trying to find your place on Syracuse University's campus.

Amy Messersmith 00:43
Hi, everybody, this is Amy Messersmith. I'm an associate director for TRiO Student Support Services here at Syracuse University. And I'm also a diversity and inclusion administrative fellow. My project is a pop up podcasting studio, and I've been working on a podcast series called lonely campus. And the goal of lonely campus was to create a resource for students who are experiencing loneliness. And the thought was, why don't we ask other students who felt something similar, but then figure out the steps that they took to eventually find their sense of belonging on campus in hopes of perhaps inspiring other students to take similar steps as well. This particular episode of lonely campus is a little bit different for a couple of reasons. First, I think it's important to point out that it was recorded back in spring 2022 Before we started working on lonely campus, so we're kind of retrofitting it into this podcast series. But because these episodes are about inclusion and belonging in the search for community on campus, we think these episodes are a valuable addition to lonely campus. And so this episode focuses on a student named Alyssa Sutherland, who at the time of the recording was in her first year, Alyssa and I actually met because she was in my fall 2021, FIS one on one session. And that was the first semester that Syracuse University started FIS 101. And she was such a great contributor to class discussions. And she stood out because she was very open about unpacking her identity is a biracial African American or black woman. And so after the class was over, I reached out to her and I told her, we're starting this thing called the senses project. It features music production, and podcasting. And the thought was, why don't we use music production and podcasting as a way to help students create community maybe increase their sense of belonging and encourage dialogue across differences. And so I asked her if she was interested in sharing her story. And coincidentally, Alyssa had already had the idea of doing a podcast and she already had a topic in mind, she wanted to dive into what it was like being a woman of color on Syracuse University's campus while rushing Panhellenic sororities, which tend to be predominantly white. And so I'm super excited that now in 2024, as part of lonely campus, we're able to include Ulisses previously recorded podcasts into this series. And so again, the format is going to be a little bit different because what we've done is broken it down into two parts. This episode features Alyssa and does a little bit deeper dive into her story, her identity and her reasons as to why she wants to do this podcast. And then this episode is followed by a podcast that Alisa produced herself, where she is the host, and she is the one facilitating a conversation. And so what follows is a really engaging discussion that I feel is definitely worth a listen. But first, I think it's important to get to know Alyssa a little bit better, so that you have an understanding of who she is and why she feels compelled to do this work. I also asked you to keep in mind that during spring 2022, if you recall, we were still in the midst of the pandemic. And so in this episode, the audio sounds a little muffled. And it's because of course we were wearing masks. And so without further ado, here's the first part of the lonely campus podcast featuring Alyssa Sutherland. So why don't we start with just an introduction of who you are, what year anything you want to share about your background? Yeah, your hometown how you got to su like,

Alyssa Sutherland 04:22
so. My name is Alyssa Sutherland and I'm a first year student at Syracuse University. I basically I'm from Missouri, which I hear a lot I've never met anyone from Missouri. You know, you didn't tell people that. I always knew I wanted to come to the northeast. I knew I wanted to leave Missouri it just didn't really fit me and the direction in which I wanted to grow and the types of people I wanted to grow around and me so I applied to Syracuse on kind of a whim and I ended up getting a full tuition scholarship. So I really feel like yeah, passed that down. And I'm really glad that I'm really glad that I came here. Definitely.

Amy Messersmith 05:09
That is awesome. Do you want to share anything about your identity?

Alyssa Sutherland 05:13
Yes so. I am an 19 year old woman. My mom is white and my father is black. So I am a mixed I have a lighter complexion. I'm also type one diabetic, which I feel like it plays into the intersectionalities that are me. Yeah, and I, I just always grew up kind of in a very white community, and had a lot of experiences in high school with microaggressions, and even just flat out racism. And that was a huge reason why I wanted to leave the Midwest, kind of like southern area and ideology to come to the northeast, even though you know, it's not like it's completely erased here. I think it's a lot better. And it's a lot easier to even talk about those things here. You know, in Missouri, you I feel like you can't even really express these thoughts or ideas. So yeah.

Amy Messersmith 06:16
your identity is I mean, we can do an entirely like,

Alyssa Sutherland 06:20
yeah, hack that. Yeah, it's it's definitely a lot definitely a lot of layers that play into me and why I feel so strongly about talking about just things like this, that I feel like a lot of people don't want to talk about, but they need to be talked about

Amy Messersmith 06:39
You're in the section that I was leading with FiOS, oh, no one really stood out to me was how willing you are to go there in discussion.

Alyssa Sutherland 06:50
I took it out sorry. And that direction of just being like taking it there, because I had never been able to take it there ever before. Like, not in a situation that was like my friends or like my family, you know, like, at school, literally, that was shut down. Like, my, like, experiences, all those things that was very invalidated back home. Like, I remember, when I was in eighth grade, that was the first time I was ever called the N word. And it was one of my friends kind of and, and it was this whole huge thing. I like lost all my friends basically, because I told on him, I had like, picture proof like he like snapchatted me a bit hard R like, some of you like it was this whole thing. And I told on him and like it was so it was such a bad experience in my school, like, shut it down so badly and basically said that I was overreacting. And like, all they did was switch our schedules my like whole life, I feel like in Missouri, like I was invalidated for my like experiences and my, you know, uncomfortability is with the way the people they're talked about or talked to like people of color, especially me because I feel like I was the token black friend and my friend group. And actually, that's why I was really worried about rushing and that situation, because I always felt like I was the token black person in a group. And that because of how I grew up, and like a white area, in a white family and a white school, that I fit the mold of what an acceptable black girl could be. So I got so many times. Oh, you're not really black that Melissa, you're not you're not really you know, you're not really black, though. And it's that's so invalidating and, like hard to hear when you're, I mean, I got that for the first time, I think when I was in middle school, sixth or seventh grade, and I'm like, what does that mean? And the more you hear it, the more you believe it the more like than what am I you know, because I'm not I'm also obviously not white, and I'm not black either. It's being mixed on its own as a really like separate struggle and like self identity, crisis and journey, especially growing up in a white area, like surrounded by white people. There was only ever maybe one or two other black kids in my class. You know, sometimes I was the only one there was like, me 40 In my whole school, but still, that's like a small number. You know, you don't even realize how small it is. I feel like until you're in a place like this, and even here, it's really hard feeling that like disconnect to both communities, you know, because I also didn't grow up in the black community. So I'm missing like a huge part there. It's kind of like where do I fit into this and people kind of tell you where you fit into it. So FiS101 when I started because I was actually the student that would watch the videos before like, you know, I was that student read to read, and he's actually and solid, you know, this curriculum that was being taught here. I was like, This is amazing. Like, that's actually like coming from Missouri, to coming to a curriculum that you have to go through to graduate, that talks, that drops the words, white privilege and micro invalidation, and, you know, all those depression, and that was huge was a huge difference for me, even if, you know, it's not, it's still not at the level of like depth hitting students that it needs to be, it's still a huge step forward, I feel like an education and talking and acknowledging those things. So I was I was like, I'm all in this, like, let's talk, you know, like, let's, let's really talk about this because this is so important to be talking about.

Amy Messersmith 10:51
And so, from there, you're kind of journeying into your, your second semester chapter is looking at this process. Yeah, you're you're participating in.

Alyssa Sutherland 11:03
Yes.rushing, rushing, rushing, rushing. Coming from Missouri, I can tell you, I, it's it was like, a two sided kind of feeling because I was in cheer in high school, I had a lot of girlfriends, I loved my girlfriend group. In high school, I love being surrounded by girls, I always thought I was going to be in a sorority, always. I'm not going I love talking and having fun. Like, I loved the idea of having like a sisterhood. Even if that sounds cheesy, like, I really, like fully believed that coming to New York, I was like, maybe it will be different. You know, I still had those kinds of biases in my mind about what it would feel like, but I was like, you know, I'm in a liberal state. Like, I feel like I'm at a really diverse and a school, you know, that really highlights diversity, equity and inclusion, like, my friends were doing it, I had always thought I was going to do what I was like, Yes, I am going to try and see. I even said that, if it ended up being horrible, I would just make a documentary and expose a documentary. And expose if there was horrible things happening, you know, because I just feel like, that just shouldn't be going on, you know, and you hear a lot of rumors about different houses and the process, but I just wanted to strip that away and kind of see for myself, you know, because you can never speak on it if you really have never been through it. So I was like, let's do it. And I did it. I the skepticism in me was there. But I still went ahead and signed up. And the first week back to school, you start the process, the first week back to the second semester, you start the process. And yeah, I was very nervous going into it. A really, really, really, really important aspect of rushing for me was getting to see diversity and the houses, you don't see a lot of people I didn't see a lot of people that looked like me. And that definitely fed into my fear going into this that, you know, what was I doing? Like, what was I doing here? Like? Is this space for me? Should I should I be trying to find spaces that have more people that look like me, I was trying to really like analyze what I was doing this for? If there were if this was even going to be a space for me if there was a space for me in the sororities here. Because, you know, Syracuse is a predominantly white institution. But I decided to still go through with that, you know, and in talking to the houses, I did see a good amount of diversity more than I thought I was going to see, does there need to be more Yes, but it was more than I thought it would be. But that does speak on also, you kind of are fed the process, you really are fed what they want you to see you're talking to people they specially pick for you. So I was being fed diversity, you know, like I was I was being fed there, three diverse members, or group all the time. So I was seeing and it was really hard to go through the process and then kind of take a step back and recognize that, like, recognize that you are being fed, you know whether or not it's just based on race or based on similarities between people. You're being fed what they want to show you. Yeah, so kind of picking through that. And listening to your gut is really what I had to do because I remember going through it and certain houses that I think it's funny because I kind of had a backwards bias going into it saying, you know, because you hear things on around campus on social media, we have an app you can anonymously just say whatever you want, so people say whatever they want, and you know, I tried to block it out, but you can't block everything. Yeah. Don't you hear things about certain houses and my ideology coming in and rushing was wanting a really genuine and special experience and being a part of a house that you were surrounded by incredible women that were uplifting you that you could feed off of that, you know, your senior, you're 30, you're 50, looking back on thinking, that was amazing that I got to experience that and got to meet the women that I got to meet, you know, that was my ideology going into it. And believe it or not, you know, a lot of people don't have that ideology going into it, a lot of people want to be with their moms were in or what house they've heard of the most, or, you know, Greek rank says is the highest. And so I just really didn't come into that I came in wanting something that was rare, which is diversity, a lot of people you know, don't have to think about that aspect. And that was the number one thing on my list. And I made that very well known and talking to each house, like each girl I talked to, I immediately brought that up, I did not walk around the eggshells with that, because it I just didn't want to be a part of something that I as soon as I got into, even if it was, you know, a top house or whatever, but I felt intimidated by or uncomfortable in or, you know, my voice wasn't heard, or I didn't feel like I could fit there. And even not just because I was a person of color. But even for like class issues. Or, you know, I just didn't want to feel like an outsider in this place that you're supposed to be a sisterhood. And I feel like a lot of girls do go places that they don't actually fit into, you know, and end up regretting it. So that was the thing that I really, I really stressed with each house. And every house, you know, really, I think, had good answers for me or at the time, I thought good answers. And that's why I feel like looking back at it, you really do have to be careful and understanding that, you know, no house is going to tell you that they have problems, you really have to read between the lines. And I think that gets easier as you move forward in the process. And once it stopped being online, you got to actually go to the house and kind of see the way that they behave with each other and start having longer and more meaningful conversations, you can kind of see through things and see through things and in a good direction and a bad direction.

Amy Messersmith 17:19
How many houses Did you visit, after the virtual process?

Alyssa Sutherland 17:22
Yeah, so um, after the virtual process, you can go back for go Greek as the first round, then it's philanthropy, which I think you could go back to 10. And there were 13. And I went back to all 10 for philanthropy, it's a weird process, like, you rank them, they rank you, if you're ranked on theirs, and they you rank them on yours, you go back like that kind of thing. If they don't rank you, they rank you low enough, you're not on theirs, even if you rank them high, it's kind of like that, it's kind of really a horrible process to go through for your self esteem just for anyone getting you know, rejection is hard we they have the motto of rejection is redirection, but sometimes it's just rejection. You know, in the future, you can see how it's redirection, but in the moment, it's sad. And you know, I witnessed that seeing my friends be cut, luckily, somehow. And I think it had to do with my honesty, I the first round, I didn't get cut for many houses that I wanted, that I didn't drop myself. And then the second round, after philanthropy, going into House tours, I got all six houses that I wanted to go to back. So I went to six houses and House tours, which is a lot. But it was really, it was really nice to have those deeper conversations and see the way that they interacted with each other. I think it's really, really helpful. And it's really telling the kind of environment because you you you can feel people who don't want to be there, you can feel people who are kind of you can just you get such a sense and a vibe of the culture of the house and the culture of the girls instead of just talking to one girl. So that's the only sense that you're getting from it. It was really eye opening to go to House tours. And then after House tours, it's pref. So for people who get six houses back, you have to go from six to two. Oh my god, which is really, really crazy. And so yeah, then I went to two and then after you go to two, you have an even more in depth conversation. I think they were I think it was like an hour felt 45 minutes to an hour tour. It's a lot more time you you are basically talking to girls you've already talked to that you have a connection with and that's when you're supposed to, you know, have this magical feeling of feeling it. You're supposed to feel it and it's all supposed to click. And that's kind of the moment that I was holding out for during this whole process was that I would have that epiphany moment where you're like, Oh, this is where I'm supposed to be like, these are the people I want to be around. And I think I definitely did. I did have that moment and I was horrified that I wouldn't especially has that We can work through it and learn some really scary kind of things. But yeah, that it ended up great for me. And I really love the house that I ended up in. And I really liked all the other houses that I spoke to. And I think I have a really good perspective on what it's like to Russia's person of color, because also, I got to go to the max every single time, like, I really got to see all of these houses, like the whole time, you know, like I so I really think I was able to have a good a good feel for each house, and its differences and similarities and as a person of color to the difference. And each house. Yeah, I'm really excited to bring on other girls who also rush the semester with me and a pan held representative to speak about what it is like, you know, for women of color, and not and kind of the difficulties of navigating just something that was made for a white woman, you know, and I'm really excited. And I think it's gonna be a great discussion. And I just want to preface it, you know, with saying, I really respect every girl who did rush and every girl who took part in, that's all that's a current member that took part in the rushing because it's grueling. It is hours and hours and hours a day, it's time you know, it's no sleep, it's talking to hundreds of girls, especially if you're on the current member side, you're just pumping in girls left and right. And it's hard. And we're going to talk about some sensitive, harder topics, but in no way do I want to feel or in no way do I want to make a listener who's a part of a sorority on this campus, or a part of a sorority feel attacked, you know, that's not the purpose, it is just fact that a sorority is a place made most comfortable for a white woman. And that That's just fact. And so navigating it as a person of color can be harder, you know, trying to find your space within that as a person of color is harder. And we're just going to talk about it. You know, that's all it is. I liked every single house that I talked to every conversation that I had, that my guests had, they were meaningful, and we just went in the direction that was best for us. And, you know, I encourage everybody listening that if you feel targeted, somehow with the topics that we're talking about to take a step back and kind of unpack why you feel that way. Because maybe something is wrong in your chapter or within a small pocket in your chapter and address it. That's That's all we're trying to do here today is talk about things that need to be talked about, let's not gloss over the reality of things that it is just a different situation to navigate as a person of color. And we really can be doing more, I think to create a safe and comfortable journey and space within their sororities on campus and within the rushing process for women of color that needs to be addressed. So that's what we're going to talk about guys, you know, it's not deeper than that, even though that is deep, but yeah,

Amy Messersmith 23:22
that is pretty powerful.

Alyssa Sutherland 23:24
I'm excited. I'm really excited just to open up the dialogue around things everybody's thinking about every everybody's thinking about these things, you're scrolling through the gag, you're seeing these things, you know, so let's stop going to Yik Yak for information, you know, let's stop going to Greek rank for information. And let's go to people who have actually lived it, it's let's go to that. And then let's hear what they have to say. Because you know, that's going to be much more powerful and accurate than an online anonymous source. And that's what we're here for. Just to lay it out from people who went through it, you know, a representative, who is part of who is in charge for pulling in these girls and safeguarding their process through this.

Amy Messersmith 24:05
Anything else you can think of that you'd want to kind of help frame? I mean, I think your intention, you've talked about, you've talked about your background, you've talked about why you want to be a part of the process and what the process was like.

Alyssa Sutherland 24:21
I think i also want to preface this conversation with if you're gonna go forward listening, we need to be on the same page that there is a problem within sorority and Greek Life culture, there is a lack of inclusivity a lack of accountability for a person of color coming into it. And that's just something that we need to be on the same page for to move forward in this discussion. Because we're not going to be debating if there is uncomfortability is in here. That's, that's going to be fact going into this discussion. I mean, I guess I will add that also as an author unsure freshman girl coming into rush, you just don't know what to expect, especially being black, I just didn't know what to expect. And there really is nowhere to go to get accurate information and accurate kind of an accurate map of what it's going to be like the good and the bad. And having something like this to find and listen to would have been enormous for me going through it. And so that's what I'm hoping to create here during this discussion is kind of something that people coming in next year years to come or even that are already here and haven't rushed and maybe want to next semester don't know what it would be like for them. They have this to listen to and kind of get a get an outline of things to look out for and things that are being fixed maybe and things that are wrong with it and kind of understanding the whole picture and then deciding if it's something that they want to take the leap into, I think that would be invaluable. Yeah, definitely.

Amy Messersmith 26:02
This is this is fantastic. Because I think it's one thing to talk about diversity and to you know, have somebody you know, open up seats at the table, so to speak. It's another thing I mean, talking about how your experience of you know, feeling like a token, it's another thing to really create an inclusive,

Alyssa Sutherland 26:21
yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, three, five representatives of diversity in your sorority, that's it's not enough, you know, yeah, the idea of being the token, person of color to meet this diversity quotient is a real feeling that you get being a person of color going into here, you know, if you look a certain way, as a black girl, or as just a woman of color in general, that you fit the mold that they are holding open for their diversity that they want, you know, you have to look this way, though. If, if you're going to be the black girl, if you're going to be the Asian girl, if you're you know, it's really just truth, it is true. And you can feel that you can feel that going into there you you really can.

Amy Messersmith 27:09
It's interesting, I think that when you're kind of scanning the different photos and stuff for a presentation, it's like I was thinking about it as you were talking like, yeah, there seems to be like the sense of safety you get, if you see yourself present.

Alyssa Sutherland 27:26
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, it's the same reason why girls want to be in a sorority in the first place. And why for white girl, that's such a place that they want to be a part of normally, because it's all people that they you know, it's people that look like them. But as a white person, you're used to seeing people, like every space was made for you, you know, um, and I feel like, it's also important to be speaking about this, because hey, sororities, we're looking for that as a person of color, like, that's a comfortability aspect that we're looking for when you guys are starting your exposome guys are doing the first round of rushing, don't feed the person of color who's rushing you guys only, your only people of color in the house, you know, but do show, if you have it, you know, people who do look like them. Because it is important to be able to see yourself in a space before you can actually be in that space. You know, nobody wants to be the first the first girl that looks like them to be a part of something because you're gonna have to plow your way and make room for yourself and make your voice be heard in that space. Because your voice, nobody who's had your voice has ever been in that space before, you know, and nobody wants to do that. And that's really how I felt that I didn't want to join a house where I had to tell them why they should care about women of color, or why they should care about black women or why my voice should be listened to you know, it's wireless, Missouri. I was tired of telling my friends why they should care about people who look like me,

Amy Messersmith 28:56
Alyssa, your courage to go there. Because sometimes students will be like, I want to be a part of this. But because I want to be a part of it. I don't want to critique it. I don't want to, I don't want to look at it in this way. And you're like, I want to be a part of this. And, you know, kind of reflect on the process while it's happening.

Alyssa Sutherland 29:17
I just feel like it's so important to within the good recognize the bad. And yeah, just call attention to that there are like layers to things and you can be a part of something and still call attention to the bad you know, like still want it to be reformed in a way. Yeah. And that's how I really feel about sororities and that just in general.

Amy Messersmith 29:55
So that concludes the first episode featuring Alyssa Sutherland coming up in As the second part, which features a facilitated conversation with Alyssa as host, she invites Natalia to sit down with her at the table. And they are joined by Niecy who back in spring 2022 was the Panhellenic Council's recruitment chair. Overall, what results is a really engaging and authentic conversation. We hope that you tune in and listen to the second part of the lonely campus podcast produced by Alisa Sutherland.

Armando Martinez 30:38
Thank you for listening to this episode of the lonely campus podcast. I'm Armando Martinez, Director of inclusion and belonging. If you found this podcast helpful, let us know and feel free to share other ways we can make campus more welcoming and inclusive to all.